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Post by billyfish on Oct 7, 2012 16:34:22 GMT
Six of us have a couple of trips a year fishing for grayling,usually in Oct/Nov.After years of fishing at Wherwell we are keen to fish another stretch that could accomodate the six of us. Any advice would be appreciated. Colin.
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Post by starsky on Oct 8, 2012 5:11:29 GMT
I know it's not on the Test but the Lower Itchen Fishery would accommodate all of you. The Itchen is a similar type of river ( I've fished both Wherwell and the Itchen fisheries) The Lower Itchen Fishery has a website I believe. The price is about the same for both waters. Cheers, Mark
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Post by sensible1 on Oct 8, 2012 17:37:22 GMT
You can fish Timsbury on the Test , £20 a day , you have to share with the bait guys
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Post by billyfish on Oct 8, 2012 22:00:09 GMT
thanks for the replies but I have been to the two venues suggested.We are now looking for a day on the upper Wye with an overnight stop, which I hope to book tomorrow. Colin.
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Post by starsky on Oct 9, 2012 9:26:24 GMT
Good choice of water. Ty Newedd is my favourite stretch of the Upper Wye and I would recommend it for a larger group. We normally book the Gromain beat as well which is the next beat down, Ty Newedd is the easier to wade. There is normally at least four in our group. If the Wye is too high too fish I would suggest the Irfon instead as it falls quickly after a flood with the Cefnesgweyne (spelt something like that !) is my favourite. The beat is three miles long . All those beats are on the Wye & Usk Passport scheme.
Have a great time where ever you decide to fish.
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Post by billyfish on Oct 9, 2012 13:13:20 GMT
These are the two beats that I booked.Can you advise on the tackle set up and best flies etc ? We are all fly fishers but I do like to trot a maggot.What do you think?
We are staying the night before at the Griffin. Many thanks , Colin.
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Post by starsky on Oct 9, 2012 19:09:41 GMT
Hi Billy, If I was fly fishing it I would use a rod between 9-10ft , the longer the better. I would either fish it Czech style with a heavy bug on the point with a couple of unweighted or lightly weighted nymph patterns above on droppers. Fly choice is personal but I normally fish with a dark pattern like a PTN and a brighter pattern like a small pink shrimp. The most important thing is to get the point fly bouncing along the bottom on this method as fast as possible to get the other flies down to the fish. The other method I would use the French leader style wich is not to dissimilar to trotting a maggot. The flies I would use would be PTN'S with either Black, Copper or Silver tungsten beads. You want the point fly heavy enough to be hitting the bottom at the end of the drift. I normally use a size 14 ( 3mm bead) on the point in faster deeper water. You will need to vary the flies according to depth and speed of water. if you cant get the flies down then I would switch to the Czech style instead. Don't forget the dries as we have had good sport even in mid winter. Olives and midges can bring good sport. There is a really good dry fly run at the end of the Ty Newedd beat( top of Gromain). I've never tried trotting before but it should work well on those beats especially Ty Newedd which in my opinion has more fishable water and as I said earlier easier wading.
The methods I mention are not everyone's cup of tea but each to their own.
It's a lovely bit of water and much wilder and challenging than the Test but don't let that put you off as the rewards are better.
Feel free to ask any more questions.
Cheers, Mark
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Post by billyfish on Oct 9, 2012 21:17:04 GMT
I am ever so grateful to get the information,and so quickly.I'm not familiar with the french leader system but i have seen it written about somewhere.The info' re the flies is invaluable as I have limited time to tie flies at the moment.I have all the bits to put together to make them and will tie some up.I have,amongst many rods , a 9' 6" #6 weight will this do? Or 10' 6" #5-8 which casts a 5 weight fine ? On my last trip to the Test I fished with a small(micro) tunsten beaded nymph under a klinkhammer and it worked very well for the line shy grayling at Wherwell.Is this worth a go or are the Wye grayling less shy? Cheers for now, Colin.
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Post by starsky on Oct 10, 2012 4:34:21 GMT
No problem. In regards to rods again its a personal thing but I personally prefer something between 9 -10 ft. The reason being that I prefer a rod in this range to fish dries when needed. A 9ft 4-5 wt would be good otherwise I would use the 9ft # 6 you mentioned although it is slightly over gunning it. The duo method could work on the shallower water but overall the water is deeper and faster than the Test so you might not get the flies down deep enough . If you aren't getting any joy you could fish the trio instead with a really buoyant dry on the top dropper. If you aren't getting any takes to the dry I would take it off and fish just the nymphs with a indicator of some sort, the adjustable type would best so you can alter the depth you are fishing. The fish aren't nearly as spooky as on the Test as it doesn't see nearly the same sort of fishing pressure. Also the nature of the water allows you to get closer to the fish enabling you to fish a shorter line which helps with line control. I ain't know expert( Pete's the man for that) but that's how I would fish it.
One other thing to tell you is regards to where to park up. If fishing the Ty Newedd beat make sure you park up at the top of the beat next to the fishing hut. The turn off is on the main road in and out of Builth Wells ( A470). There is more accessible water from this bank just fish downstream from the hut.
Cheers, Mark
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Post by billyfish on Oct 13, 2012 17:24:04 GMT
Great information for which I am very grateful.This is the great thing about forums-the free exchange of information. I have started to tie up some flies for the trip and began with the GRHE with a 3mm tungsten bead.Next some killer bugs. Cheers, Colin.
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Post by Pete Tyjas on Oct 13, 2012 18:32:46 GMT
Hi Colin,
Some great advice from Starsky and like he says a 9ft will be a good alrounder for your trip.
Fishing a long leader/leader to hand/ French Nymph leader will be a great way to really search the water especially if it cold although I have heard of some great hatches in recent days that have got the grayling looking upwards.
I suspect Starrskyand I use the same sort of leader and I have for most of this season on our rivers in Devon too. It is from the guys at Fish On and is the best that I have used. I have to say I have no reason to mention these other than as a very happy customer.
Fishing this way will enable you to first of all to cast a couple of really heavy nymphs with ease and secondly get them down quickly. You can vary the way you fish them by dead drifting them, leading them, jigging them or one of my most favourites inducing them. You will also need an indicator that help detect the subtlest of takes something you don't always see with a NZ/Duo rig
Casting a couple of 3mm tungsten beads can take the edge off of the day a bit whereas the Fish on (the enhanced version) leader will make it really easy.
Fly wise as Starsky says tie the PTN's with 2.5mm 3mm and 3.5mm beads in sizes 14 to 18. I don't use Killer bugs myself as I can't get enough weight into them but could be great as a dropper fly. A couple of pink bugs might be worth trying too.
If you go down the long leader route think about the wading too as you will be right up on the fish so stealth is everything!
Not everyone likes this technique but I find it really, really good and now just fish with a 9 1/2ft 4wt with the leader and keep a reel in my pocket with a normal 4wt line on it.
Hope that helps
Pete
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Post by starsky on Oct 14, 2012 20:49:49 GMT
I'll second the Fish On french leader,i have used it all season and it's superb.
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Post by Pete Tyjas on Oct 15, 2012 6:34:31 GMT
Colin,
Depends when you go but if we can meet somewhere I'd happily lend you a 9ft 2 wt and a leader etc if you'd like to try.
Pete
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Post by starsky on Oct 15, 2012 6:54:04 GMT
Pete, The rod you use is it the Streamflex plus ? The reason I ask is because I'm after a rod which I can use for both dries and the French leader. At the moment I use a 10ft for both as I don't like carrying two rods about. It's good for the French leader but I prefer something shorter for dries. I've been looking at the Streamflex and Hanak 4 in 1 rods to fit this bill. Any opinions ? Cheers, Mark
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Post by Pete Tyjas on Oct 15, 2012 12:28:24 GMT
Hi Mark,
It isn't it is a Snowbee Prestige. I have had a variety of 10ft rods that are close to fitting the does all bill but not quite. The nearest is the Maxia which my pal Jim swears by but it just wasn't there for me.
A friend I am fishing with tomorrow has a Hanak rod and funnily enough asked me the same question this morning as he didn't feel it was right for him to fish with a fly line.
I have just bought a Sage One 9 1/2 ft 4wt to review ( I had to sell 2 other rods and my left kidney) as, like you, I wanted more of an all rounder. I have fished it with the leader system and it is very good. The rod is stiff and I was worried that I would bump fish but I haven't and have fished it a bit now. I tried a bunch of lines on it that I couldn't really say were perfect, they were good though but was cleaning my truck out yesterday and found a 4wt Barrio GT90...it was awesome.
Apparently where I am fishing tomorrow there have been some great olive hatches in the afternoon so I plan to nymph in the morning and hopefully string the fly line up and try with dries too.
I think the problem with the long specialist rods is that they are designed more for nymphing than casting line and I looked at the Sage as a long fly line rod that I could nymph with. Might be worth having a cast with the Snowbee though it is good and I know there are some more rods in the pipeline too.
Pete
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Post by starsky on Oct 15, 2012 14:36:03 GMT
Hi Pete, Thanks for the recommendations . I'm not sure the perfect rod is out there for both types of fishing. I have a Scott S4 9ft #5 which is a great dry fly rod but it has lost me too many decent fish on the French leader due to bumping them off. I love that rod but might have to sell it to fund a new purchase. If I didn't lose fish on it I would probably compromise the extra length needed for better long leader fishing. Interesting with the Sage that your not losing fish also, I would blame it on my bad angling but once I started using the 10ft #4 Streamflex I hardly bump fish at all. I will have a look at the Snowbee as I'm not sure my budget could stretch to a Sage without putting the other half on the game.. Cheers, Mark
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Post by starsky on Oct 15, 2012 14:41:36 GMT
Forgot to add, can you let me know what you think of the Hanak when you get a chance please .
Cheers, Mark
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Post by billyfish on Oct 15, 2012 14:56:55 GMT
Thanks for the offer Pete but I have so many rods that I am bound to have something that will work.I am certainly getting a case of technical inadequacy(sp ?)at the moment.Perhaps we can meet at a fishing location.I have more time at this time of year.Maybe a day at John Aplins ? Are the streamflex rods part of the flextec range ? Colin.
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Post by Pete Tyjas on Oct 15, 2012 15:48:22 GMT
Mark,
S4, stunning rod! I wonder how much these things get into your head and you are playing a fish thinking you are going to lose it and then you end up losing it because you were more gentle than usual. I think the mental aspect is a big part of it sometimes.
Also what hooks are you using? I can't remember if you tie or not but I have been using different hooks (Fish On) again and they work really well. Strong and sharp!
I've seen you fish and don't think it is poor angling, sometimes they just come off.
Will let you know about the Hanak. Like you say the Sage is hard to justify but that and the Loop S1 are becoming my fave rods and I am trying to get current ones so that I can keep readers up to date with a true, long term review of them.
Colin, you are most welcome to borrow it. I'm not using it much at the mo and it comes with a reel and French Leader on. One of the things you will find with this form of fishing is that the arm gets a little weary as you are keeping the line off of the water. The Snowbee is light and easy to use and will only be sitting in the rod pile. It would be great to make use of it and catch a few on it. But am up for a visit to JA's. I have been trying to get over there but weather (like it has all year) has been a nightmare.
Pete
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Post by starsky on Oct 15, 2012 17:05:29 GMT
Pete, I know what you mean about mental aspect. I took a mate out recently who normally struggles on rivers. I spent the day with him showing him the French leader technique and helping him by showing him where fish would be lying up. At the start of the day he said that when he approached a river he never expected to catch but by the end of the day this had changed to know he expects to catch at the start of a days fishing. This mental attitude makes a big difference on how well you fish on the day I believe. Going back to dropping fish , I actually stopped using the rod as I snapped the tip section while playing a decent fish( I must have damaged it before). I stupidly sent it off to the States instead of the UK to get repaired and it took bloody ages. In the meantime I used the Streamflex and never returned to using it. Maybe I should try it again to confirm or dispel my feelings about it. In regards to hooks I use the Kamasan Grub hooks for my PTN's and have never had a problem before with them. I look forward to hearing about the Hanak and i will also have a look at the Loop.
Cheers , Mark
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